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Juliana's avatar

“If a woman is post-child [id est, nursing], may she eat fish…”

Could you share a bit about the history of fasting practices and guidelines for pregnant or nursing Orthodox women and children? I recently had my 5th baby and the topic has been on my mind for a long time. The blanket discouragement of fasting for childbearing women and young children in modern parishes never made sense to me (especially when "fasting" is seen as really just a temporary vegan diet: plenty of women and children outside the Orthodox Church follow a vegan or vegetarian diet during these seasons of life).

Special circumstances exist: morning sickness is a challenge and often easier to handle with snacking frequently throughout the day; and in my most recent pregnancy I had to eat ~200g protein a day in the third trimester to prevent a complication I had with an older child. I've also dealt with severe anemia in the past, where eating red meat was a necessity. But an outright ban excludes a significant portion of the Orthodox population from participating in the fast, sometimes for a long time if there are back-to-back pregnancies and long periods of nursing. And there is a big difference between nursing a 2 week old, or a 2 month old, or a 2 year old! I've been able to skip breakfast and sometimes lunch without it affecting my milk supply at 3 months "post-child," but some women might not have that experience. I definitely wouldn't fast at all during the first 40 days.

Our new priest gave me a blessing to have animal foods at breakfast or lunch if I need it, and a Lenten dinner with my family. It's the first Lent in six years I've been blessed to participate in fasting in some way. I don't know why this kind of "customization" of the fast isn't more common! Or maybe it is and it's just that nobody wants to talk about it... How did people handle this historically? How did children learn to fast, and at what age? Were accommodations made for them regarding timing of meals or types of foods?

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Phroneo's avatar

Juliana, you raise a very important question, but for reasons that are a bit different from whether a nursing mother should fast. You are absolutely correct - there are plenty of American women who follow a vegetarian or even a vegan diet while having children and nursing. Sure, we hear from time to time that some hapless vegan suffers from malnutrition. But when done properly, a vegetarian, and especially pescatarian diet - the one referenced in the comment, can be acceptable for a nursing mother. It is preposterous to claim that Orthodox women are fundamentally different from Adventist, New Age, or Animal Rights women and are incapable of giving up burgers. I will try to do some research and post what I can find.

But here is the real problem. A parish priest has no power to allow you to fast or forbid you from fasting. A bishop can allow or forbid certain things (usually, not related to fasting). A spiritual father can allow or forbid almost anything concerning his spiritual child; but this is a monastic discipline that is impossible to replicate in a parish setting - not in a small measure because most parish priests (as by far not all monks) are not suitable as spiritual fathers. A parish priest can offer only advice. Sometimes, his advice may be good - based on many years of working with people, studying, thinking, praying. Sometimes, his advice may be bad, and you would do well to thank him but do what you know to be right. This strange phenomenon, whereby a parish priest acts as a holy elder, allowing and forbidding, and lay people act as novice monks who must obey every command of their abbot - this never made much sense to me. This is a separate large topic, and I cannot possibly do it justice here.

For now, I will attempt to find sources that speak to the experience of mothers and children during long fasts. But here are some immediate comments. Yes, the eucharistic fast can be a real challenge; but first, it has never been an absolute requirement, and there are circumstances when it is legitimately not observed; and second, on some Sunday mornings, depending on how she feels, a woman may choose not to partake of Communion. There are many circumstances, including health issues, when people abstain from Communion on occasion. Second, 200 g of protein can be a real challenge. Meat is only about 20% protein by weight, and one would have to eat two pounds of it in order to get 200 g of protein. If physicians tell you that you need that much protein, then you could look at other forms of fasting that do not involve abstaining from meat. As you already mentioned, you could have a rule of fasting all mornings until noon, for example. Or, you could treat meat as medicine and prepare it in a very simple way, forego all fancy dishes and desserts, etc. But it may very well be that for some time, due to health conditions, fasting from food may be impossible. It may very well be the case, that is order to consume two pounds of meat daily, you must start eating as soon as you wake up and hope to finish it by bed-time. In this case, you may choose to focus less on fasting from food and more on helping others and giving alms, which historically has always been an integral element of Christian fasting.

I hope, some of this makes sense. Let me see what I can find about fasting for women and children.

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Juliana's avatar

Fr Sergei, thank you for your thoughts! I actually did not know that about parish priests' authority over the laity to allow or disallow fasting practices. That's quite a relief to hear, as there's never quite enough time in a large parish to discuss nuance or get to really know someone's situation, and I've always felt that must be a lot of pressure on the priest! Maybe it's a convert-parish thing, but in our circle there is a lot of emphasis on the virtue of obedience.

I also didn't know that about choosing to abstain from Communion for health or other reasons. I was under the impression that the only reason to abstain was for unconfessed or unresolved sin, and that the expectation is for one to receive Communion weekly! Thereby requiring frequent confession as well. In some seasons of life, that's a lot to keep up with, but there's a sense that if you're putting first things first, you should be willing to sacrifice anything to make it happen, and if you don't, you must not love God as much. But it sounds like maybe that's also a part of zealous convert-parish culture?

Yes, the 200g of protein was quite a challenge! Thankfully I only had to do that for the third trimester of pregnancy, and the big belly reduced my stomach capacity so it was as you said: I was eating as soon as I woke up and tried to hit that quota by bedtime. But I'm grateful to have access to meat-as-medicine, as it was the healthiest pregnancy and delivery out of my five children, zero complications this time. That said, it's been such a relief to be able to just not eat sometimes now that I'm 3 months postpartum! Within reason of course. It's definitely a lot easier during the busy new baby season of life to just not eat breakfast some days, than to completely rehaul our pantry and meal-planning. It feels more restful.

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